my, i think gays should be able to mary, i mean, i was raised by parent who hated eachother, but they thaought they had more rights to mary then a gay couple who loved each other. Im not gay, but i think they should have the same rights as everyone elce. *******MY OPINION DONT HATE ME OR OTHERS FOR IT***********
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Posted: 2009-10-13 13:51:26
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the government shouldn't get to decide who you are allowed to love.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
9Or (A)do you not know that the unrighteous will not (B)inherit the kingdom of God? (C)Do not be deceived; (D)neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will (E)inherit the kingdom of God.
Btw, I'm not satanist. Just pointing something out. All I believe in is Heaven.
I think that every person on this earth should have the same rights as anyone else.
Yay equal rights!!
The problem I see with gay marriage is that it is A: unnatural and B:would lead to the extinction of a species. The former has two problems in my mind, being unnatural it goes against a greater design which I believe is God's, and therefore is a sin. God designed us to fulfill the measure of our creation which part of that is to procreate. The initial commandment given to Adam and Eve. Homosexuality defines the initial commandment that God gave us and his entire design of creating a male and female of each species.
B: Homosexuality would lead to the utter destruction of our world. If we all went gay, there would be no way to reproduce, unless we live in a f-ed up world where we all just extract sperm from gay men and implant that into gay women. If you think we all should go there then you got problems.
Therefore allowing gay marriage is like saying we are OK with both scenario A and scenario B above, and I with a conscience, cannot.
It was normal in ancient Greece and Rome, and obviously the human race hasn't had any problems growing since then, and we aren't all gay.
I don't know how long that gays have been able to adopt, or even the numbers of gays that do, but making homosexuality a generally accepted life style, will lead to more people "trying it out" and more gay couples who are legally married I am sure will lead to easier adoption rules for them and this will lead to more people "learning homosexuality" from their parents. It's not a disease it's a lifestyle choice just like drinking. And like drinking feels good, I guess banging an ass hole or taking it up the ass does as well. Not sure I've never taken it up that way, can't tell ya.
All I can say is that seeing as homosexuality goes against everything about human nature. Yes, let's all be like ancient Greece and ancient Rome.
Our country is not founded in ANY way on Christianity. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Also, Americans hate everything unnatural. In fact, everything unnatural is illegal. Glasses, silverware, shoes, haircuts, houses, clothes, and yes, the Bible! All unnatural, all illegal. It's just how we do things, and it works, eh? : ).
Oh, and thanks Johnecash : ). Seriously, we are definitely on the same page here. Or, as I may refer to you now, cashman.
Romans 1:26-27 (King James Version)
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New American Standard Bible)
9Or (A)do you not know that the unrighteous will not (B)inherit the kingdom of God? (C)Do not be deceived; (D)neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will (E)inherit the kingdom of God.
Second verse:The "homosexuals" referred to is correctly translated into "soft." The word homosexual did not exist until very recently.
Disrespecting your father and mother (cause for a death sentence).
A woman fornicating (cause for a death sentence).
A woman being raped and failing to scream loud enough (cause for a death sentence).
Practicing witchcraft (cause for a death sentence)
Boiling a goat in its mothers milk. (Cause for damnation).
Need more I can give them.
CTUDirector: I am straight. Thanks for the offer though.
Ertrov: We are currently having a form of biblical discussion if I'm not mistaken, but I can continue it here as you believe I can't hold my own. Luke 16:17 would disagree with you that the laws no longer apply, "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."
And over and over I must ask, what is the evidentiary basis for your Christian belief?
What scientific evidence?
And personal accounts are unscientific completely. And there are plenty of personal accounts of every other religion as well. Why not listen to those?
And so... God compromises? What?
And example is this: Matt 5:21-22
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
He's not really saying that the old law is no longer valid, but that there is a higher law that we are to live by and the punishments seem to be in most cases more spiritual rather than physical or immediate. The new supersedes the old. Personal repentance through your own actions, change, and broken heart and contrite spirit take the place of the sacrifice at the alter.
First of all, that word is horrifyingly offensive, please stop using it. Secondly, The illusion of a defined father and mother figure is the same kind of illusion as that of the white picket fence family. It is perceived that only a family with a father, mother, and 2.5 kids can function correctly. This has been refuted many times by experiment, and is simply not the reality of the situation.
Yes, men exist to propagate a species (I would disagree that God created them), yet propagation of species is not the only concern of evolution, society, and history.
I am quite far from an ignorant bitch, and would appreciate no further ad hominem arguments.
So yes. : ).
All I have seen are in agreement that homosexuality is either positively inborn or almost positively inborn.
See Scirus's search: "Homosexuality Genetic"
And the NGLTF statement on the NIH study on Homosexuality Genetics. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/scotts/bulgarians/nih-ngltf.html
What if I were to disagree with my friend Sloan being black? I don't think he would take that too well, eh?
Try again.
judge not least you be judged yourself
we are all sinners and according to the bible no since is better or worse. its not our place to judge the gays, but Jesus did teach it is our place to love our neighbor.
and makes things happen is more than man
Also i just went along uprating all of entrov's comments. Myself i dont belive in any religion im athiest but everything it says about gays seems right to me.
so what's the problem?
Yes, there are variations of the bible that do state is one way or another that homosexuality is bad and should not be recognized. And also that marriage between them is banned. Sure, I can see that. And if you think that, then think it! But I do believe you should let them go be them and do what they want. I was raised christian, and no long subscribe to any religion for various reasons which don't belong on this thread. I do however believe, that as a church, under the ideals that you preach, read and live by you do have the right to not accept marriages for gays absolutely. Who am I to tell you how to run your religion. But the STATE should have no baring on this, church and state should be separate. If the 10 commandments have to be removed from the court house lawn, then you should not allow the bible as a court defence or offence. Period. Law is not governed nor looked upon by religion.
Short Answer: Yes, I think gays and lesbians have the right to be joined in any way they please. And I believe that churchs have the right based on their ideals to not allow it. So go find a side of the christian population or a church that allows it... have a nice day.
1. There's nothing wrong with being gay. I respect your religion, but when people use it to fuel and justify their own biased, and hateful opinions is wrong.
2. Gay men are NOT going to rape you. I doubt women are attracted to you. What the fuck makes you think a man wants you?
"With liberty and justice for all."
If you call yourself an American, you have to live up to that.
I just hope the Cali. trial pulls through.
No, marriage isn't that important, but it's not right in the slightest bit to keep people from marrying each other. Blind acceptance is hard to find anymore. The way I see it, anyone should be able to marry anyone, and sex is just an unimportant factor to that.
Honestly, I think people who are homosexual are people who are the next step in evolution, because they can't reproduce with each other, and therefore, stopping reproduction...which I have no complaints about. Humans suck.
Butbut, back to the topic. Gay marraige is just like regular marriage, it's two people who love each other, and it's two people who want to be together forever. I don't have a problem seeing two guys kissing, or being in love. I don't have a problem with two girls kissing, or being in love. People are people.
Whoever believes otherwise should pull the stick out of their ass.
1. Who says every gay couple love each other? If gays could marry, don't you think a lot of them would end up just like straight couples? The only reason there are no statistics on this is because all gays have to do now is just break up. There's really no paperwork.
2. I think that if the majority of the people don't mind if gays marry, then the laws should reflect that, whether on a State level or on a national level.
3. I think the fundamental issue isn't a moral issue. I think the very base issue is whether or not marriage is a right or a privilege. If it is a privilege, then it should should be given or denied based on popular vote. If it is a right, however, it should not be denied, however, if it is a right, then we cannot as a fair nation deny family members the same right, which we obviously do.
4. Okay, so I had one more. I think people try to push their own morality on other people too much. I choose to believe what I want to believe because I have that right, but everyone else has that right too, and if I want my beliefs respected, I should respect others' beliefs as well.
Homosexual behavior in animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour#Homosexual_behaviour
/>
1,500 animal species practice homosexuality
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx
I'm pretty sure that was the point. I think it was the "My point is" part that helped me in my decision to decipher it as such.
So, if a human male had sex with another human male, just to, "show dominance," you wouldn't call it homosexual??
....What?
And we ARE animals, through simple taxonomic classification, originally by a creationist, in fact.
Humans are mammalian animals- Primates, specifically. We aren't fungal, mineral, etc... we are animals.
"We don't go around humping eachother, because we have dignity as humans." I will use an example very close to my life, as my prom was last night. Guys pay upwards of $1,000. They then expect sex (not myself, but many do as I'm sure you will not disagree with). They then get sex. Quite often. Tons of people "go around humping each other" all of the time.
Either way, your original point about the homosexuality seen in other animal species is moot.
Sure, you may say that within your specific Christian framework, you prefer to differentiate between humans and other animals. However, within the scientific framework, the fact still stands. I simply always employ the scientific argument/worldview, as I am somewhat close to an empiricist myself.
Furthermore, if people hadn't decided to be different, and unique, our world would be nowhere near as evolved. This is why I entirely disagree that "if nature isn't doing it, we shouldn't be doing it either".
Also:
1. Jojopumkin totally owned your arse with that comment.
2. Who are you, or anyone with an opinion commenting here, one to decide what's best for someone else?
Edit due to insensitivity.
If I may, however, more civil questioning? If not I understand.
1. If it is unnatural, why has homosexuality been observed in 1500 species?
2. If marriages are restricted to heterosexuality in your view, does that mean marriages are for the sole purpose of procreation?
Thanks for continued discourse if you so desire, sorry for the insulting tone of the first reply.
2. Marriage is for two purposes. The utmost is love. The second is obviously procreation. So you have failed a very important aspect of marriage if you are gay. This also goes for straight people, if you don't concieve a child and you are able to, you have failed a part of marriage and also one of the purposes of your life.
And yes Logos, I accept your apology.
People don't become gay because they want to see humanity go extinct. There are plenty of people having children right now if you haven't noticed.
Somewhat off topic but still relevant...
If you do some research you will find that there are many forces at work driving people away from procreation. One of them being BPA which is an additive that was put in soft plastics for whatever reason that recent studies have shown creates effeminate male offspring and can create reprodution issues such as erectile dysfunction.
Study: Boys Engage in “Less Masculine Play” After Prenatal Chemical Exposure
http://tinyurl.com/yzga8f8
/>
Studies Link BPA to Erectile Dysfunction
http://tinyurl.com/yle94ah
/>
The argument that people are not born gay is beginning to fall apart. It seems to me that they are being engineered that way. To no fault of their own or their parents.
As for women...
Homosexuality in women I believe is more of a mystery but they are still women nonetheless and still have (IMO)the ability to nurture and love (as do homosexual males). Woman are also under attack regarding fertility.
A Vaccine Against Pregnancy?
http://www.fwhc.org/health/vaccine.htm
/>
HPV vaccine might cause infertility
http://tinyurl.com/4y99va
/>
The HPV Vaccine has Polysorbate 80 which is a compound that is in a vast amount of vaccines and foods including the "new" H1N1 2009 vaccine.
I am a firm believer that homosexuality is typically rare birth trait in those that have had little to no exposure to modern medicine and or chemicals (pre big pharma era and under developed areas). I also believe that there is a massive depopulation program being used on our species through social, genetic, chemical and pharmaceutical engineering as we speak.
New Study Links Genetically Engineered Corn to Infertility
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_15588.cfm
/>
I could go on and on and on and on about the population controls being implemented and it's acceleration in the near future but I will hope that this seed I've planted here will spur some of you to do some research of your own and find that I am not a whack-o and there is more evidence beginning to surface that such things are happening. The end result in all of this is that wealth and "nobility" will be your ticket to survival in this world unless something is done by all of us.
Since when did I say gays wanted to see the human race go extinct?
It doesn't exactly matter if some people don't want more people born.
Until you find me a gay gene I will not believe that people are born gay.
I know gay people that are not pre pharma and are in very developed areas, I don't even know where you got that argument.
And maybe there is some conspiracy going on but what does that have to do with anything?
Something being hereditary means that it is passed on through parental lineage... i.e. hair color, eye color, height, etc.
Something being genetic simply means that it lies somewhere in the genetic makeup. In this case, the gay gene is not hereditary, but genetic. Do you understand the difference?
2. Then, by your definition, every straight couple that does not procreate is just as forbidden from marriage. Would you support a law that, upon a year after marriage, if a married couple is not pregnant or with child, the marriage would be terminated? If not, you may wish to redefine your view of marriage.
Thanks for the acceptance of the apology.
2. I never once said that if you are gay then you can't marry. Therefore your argument has been trumped. If you're gay, go ahead and marry, I don't care. I just feel that if you are not procreating, you are missing one of the points of marriage.
2. If gays can marry, then you aren't against gay marriage? Cool, thanks.
Ertrov: Yes, that is very true. Some homosexual behavior observed in the Animal Kingdom is caused by a pursuit for dominance in a pack. This is well-documented. However, homosexual sex in the animal kingdom where dominance does not seem to be involved is also well documented. Both occur, and both are very real, validating my argument.
P. S. Were you a former Christian?
And no, Logos does not agree completely with the Bible if at all. You will not convince him with anything religion related, I've already tried. This is why you don't see me trying to say, "God made it this way."
I will not be persuaded by unproven biblical "truth." If Ertrov wishes to use that, I cordially invite him to start a thread on the veracity of the Bible. I will post politely and will certainly enjoy myself : ).
Also, I was formerly a (very devout) Christian.
And yes, animals do think, have emotion, fear, and even use tools. Chimpanzees can communicate through sign language.
Also, it seems many people on this post don't seem to realise that "unnatural" is the negative verb of "nature", as they keep saying that homosexuality is unnatural, even though it has been posted many times now that there are over 1500 species, species of nature, if you will, that practise it.
i have all my information from bill bryson's book, A Short History of Nearly Everything.
9Or (A)do you not know that the unrighteous will not (B)inherit the kingdom of God? (C)Do not be deceived; (D)neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will (E)inherit the kingdom of God.
And the most important commandment of all is to love your neighbor as yourself, along with loving God. How is preventing two people a loving union loving??
No, but that is completely unrelated. There is nothing deleterious to a person regarding homosexual behavior.
And they're here, they're queer deal with it.
Nuff said
Until you learn to respect the beliefs of others, you shouldn't be talking about religion at all.