Religion Debate Post (With Notifications... WOoo!)

Go ahead, say your views, rail against it, profess your love for it, etc. Be at least mildly civil, and be ready to back up your claims.

Also we have notifications, so this will be SO much easier!

PS. I will stay out of this one for two entire days. I'll let the argument(s) formulate, statements develop, etc., before I start my ridiculously bias discourse : ).

Have fun, team!

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  • 3

    rule 34: if it exists there is porn of it, kgo show me porn of jesus or even god for that matter.

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  • 3

    Hahahahahahaha. You are a genius, sir.

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  • 3

    THE BIBLE IS A BOOK
    definately

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  • 3

    Tacos are ftw!

    I'm not religious, but my mother used to force me to go to church... She's a mormon too... If there is a hell, my mother showed it to me... >.>

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  • 2

    I would agree with you there. I would classify myself as a scientific pantheist: holding the belief that there is no God (or Gods), yet the universe is majestic and worthy of reverence in itself.

    Tacos are good.

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  • 2

    If evolution still seems sktechy to you, I highly recommend "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins. I should explain all you need to know about the theory of Evolution.

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  • 1

    why thank you :)

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  • 1

    wait what about furry

    • 720Z
    • February 27, 2010, 5:02 pm
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  • 1

    that has no relevance to anything

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  • 1

    yeah you said

    "if it exists there is porn of it"

    • 720Z
    • February 27, 2010, 6:28 pm
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  • 1

    indeed i did but u can have porn of stuff that doesnt exist thats not what the rule refrs to . it refers to if it does exist there is also porn of it, furries dont exist but there canstill be porn because it is drawn therefore doesnt have to exist. if that makes sense to you

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  • 1

    ....

    • 720Z
    • February 28, 2010, 7:25 am
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  • 1

    JURANUS!!!

    • 720Z
    • March 5, 2010, 9:34 pm
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  • 1

    Well I am a Christian who believes(somewhat) in evolution. Bring on the bashing.

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  • 1

    Why do you say somewhat in evolution?

    And why bashing? More of America agrees with you than not : ).

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  • 1

    Well said, sir, well said : ).

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  • 1

    Well evolution does just seem kind of sketchy to me. I don't have time right now but I'll try to cite this later. But there is this fire shooting insect that would have been imposible to evolve.

    Pardon me for my details being skechy as well but it's 6:00 in the morning and I hears about this insect 2&1/2 years ago so I don't remember much about it.

    The bashing I was expecting was from really hardcore Christians. "the bible says everything was created in 7 days. There can be no evolution."

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  • 1

    My opinion on religion? They can't all be right, they could all be wrong. I don't see any reason to believe in religion. There is no way hell can exist, because if there is a god, he has the sophistication and power to create the whole universe. Wouldn't someone with this level of sophistication be above cruelty towards us? It wouldn't create hell. Even I wouldn't create Hell if I was god, I don't think anyone would. This is why I resent religion. This idea that you have to love and worship your god, living life a specific way, his way or else being tortured for eternity is...awful. Not something a divine intellegence would come up with. It's all clearly of human origin. Not even of good human origin.

    But what really bothers me, is how christians will deny the theory of evolution, despite it being one of the most well supported scientific theories (Not to mention how interesting it is) In favour of this:

    God sent his son, who's actually him down to earth on a suicide mission, to redeem mandkind for thier sins. Then someday he'll return to judge us. This is because about 7000 years ago (when the world was created, despite that our planet is actually billions of years old) a woman ate an apple in a garden because a talking snake convinced her that it was a good idea. Makes perfect sense, huh?

    They believe that, yet they think evolution is crazy? I'm sorry, but if you believe in a "Judgement day" I have to seriously consider your judgement.

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  • 1

    Ah, I see, makes sense Jofus (the bashing part). However, you would be referring to the Bombardier Beetle, whose evolution is, in fact, well-known.

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  • 1

    Haha, extremely well said, sir. I agree, the idea of hell is completely abhorrent, and if there is indeed a Universe-creating, omnipotent God who did in fact create hell? I wouldn't worship the bastard. No matter how much power he had over me.

    How could anyone enjoy heaven knowing their loved ones are burning for eternity?

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  • 1

    Sorry on an itouch. Can you post the YouTube link?

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  • 1

    Well to that I would just have to say that he is god and can do as he pleases. I can't know his reasoning...he's a lot smarter than me. But I would guess that he would send people to hell because if you don't live a rightous life you don't deserve eternal life in paridise.

    @logos: you comment, " How could anyone enjoy heaven knowing their loved ones are burning for eternity?" Well once your in heaven you are no longer concerned with earthly things. But, one thing that bothers me is when people say I know he/she is watching over us. He/she refering to a deceased loved one. I just don't think that is the way it works.

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  • 1

    i dont care about religoin because if there is y would he put us on earth and let peaple be bad what is he doing putting us in a little test and see who is good or who is bad and if there is a god then why does he let awhole lot of peaple die each day

    • pdog08
    • April 20, 2010, 1:35 pm
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  • 1

    Well, I for one am a Christian. I however think that whatever you believe is what you believe, and I am going to respect you either way and not discriminate against you because of what you believe. I choose to be a Christian; religion is a personal choice and whatever you choose, you're a person either way and I will still respect you.

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  • 1

    death is part of life. the biggest problem with GOD is that man has no clue who God is. you can't use our morals to judge something bigger than us all.

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  • 1

    I'll bash your christian beliefs. How was god created? How does an ultimate being appear out of nowhere? Or are you gonna say that god is like galactus? And how can god create people in his image? And if we can't live forever, then why do we have to die and live forever in the afterlife in heaven or hell? If jesus exists this is what I have to say:

    and that sums it up just about in my opinion.

    ps. I'm white.

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  • 1

    Can't without it making it a video. Search "Richard Dawkins tackles the Bombardier Beetle"

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  • 1

    Good, I'm very glad you aren't discriminatory. : ).

    What made you decide on Christianity?

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  • 1

    That was interesting. I liked it. But I'm just a skeptic. Yes evolution has been observed like breeding wolves into dogs. But the dog is still a canine. It is still very similar to a wolf.

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  • 1

    Here are the questions you asked me:

    How was God created?
    I don't know.

    How does an ultimate being appear out of nowhere? Basically the same question so I won't answer it again.

    Or are you gonna say that god is like galactus?
    Sorry but who?

    And how can god create people in his image?
    Maybe god looks very similar to people. Or maybe he is a cellular being. What if (bear with me please) he is just a cellular being who can control everything in our universe. I picture a child playing with a toy set. No god is not a child but that is just how I try to visualize it. So "created in his own image" could just mean that he is a cellular being.

    And if we can't live forever, then why do we have to die and live forever in the afterlife in heaven or hell?

    Because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit.

    p.s. I'm white too


    Now I want to ask you a question or two.

    Can you prove evolution beyond a shadow of a doubt?

    Can you prove that God doesn't exist?

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  • 1

    I can actually. There's no physical evidence of god ever existing. If you want to bring the bible into this i'll tell you that anybody can make up stories and write a book (hence the 50 (exaggeration) different bible versions in the world) I picture god as a kid with a magnifying glass over an ant hill and we're the ants. And I never said I was for eveolution. Another thing: for all you christians out there the only reason god created human life is because him and satan decided one day that they were bored and wanted to watch people live their own lives according to their rules. Only satan went behind gods back and tried to fuck with everything but he couldn't handle it so god banished him to the pits of hell to rule over the wicked and unjust people that god called sinners.

    There's more I wanna say but I can't think of what it is.

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  • 1

    Sorry I wrongly assumed you believed in evolution but that's what happens when you assume. You make an ass out of u and me.

    You didn't prove that he doesn't exist. But my "proof" of god is the beauty of our world and the complexity of it.

    But why do you picture god as a kid wth the magnifing glass torturing the ants?

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  • 1

    Look at it this way my friend you see people dying everyday. Some for good reasons and some for no reason at all. God can decide whether he wants that person to live or not which is why we have hospitals. He can either let that ant walk away with it's life or burn it to oblivion.

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  • 1

    agreed. Church is boring and I always fall asleep. So if on the day the world's supposedly supposed to end and the supposed day of the second coming of christ then I guess we're going to hell or left behind when the rapture supposedly happens.

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  • 1

    I'm not sure you know that, #1, #2: Hell is an Earthly thing??

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  • 1

    I guess that works but I don't think god let's us die out of a sick compulsion to see us suffer.

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  • 1

    No. But I dont quite understand your question. Could you reitterate please. Only if it actually was a question.

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  • 1

    For the record logos I do respect your views and anyone else's as long as they are relitivly polite.

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  • 1

    well thank you for not discrimination against me its just that a whole lot of peaple say that god created every thing and i do belive that he might have created man but others say that he created earth and animals when we have scientific proof that it was all evoultion

    • pdog08
    • May 15, 2010, 4:36 am
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  • 1

    Ah, the classic mistake in conceptualization of biological evolution. Many people attempt to differentiate what some call "micro" evolution and "macro" evolution. However, there is no actual difference. One is the other with simply more time. It's similar to a child seeing someone take two steps, and asserting that although those two steps can be taken, it is physically impossible for that person to walk a mile. The logic just doesn't make sense.

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  • 1

    But it is a valid point. A dog is still a canine and that is with human influence. Humans have been breeding dogs for thousands of years but a chiauhau(sorry for spelling) is still similar to a wolf. It doesn't change into a girrafe or a hippo.

    Bow as I have stated I don't nessecarily think evolution is false. But the notion that it all just happened by chance with no one influencing it seems like to much of a long shot to me.

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  • 1

    It's not really a valid point... It's true that dogs don't turn into hippos or giraffes, but that is because they are on completely different taxonomic branches.

    Also, the problem is we have been breeding for thousands of years... not millions. It takes millions.
    However, we have been privileged to observe multiple examples of speciation: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

    Thinking that it was by chance would be ridiculous. It isn't- it is by natural selection, the guiding process fueled by competition, mutation, and now sexual reproduction.

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  • 1

    Do you really want me to read that whole thing? Could you possibly just give a specific section?

    But here is an interesting article you might enjoy:

    http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/Encyclopedia/10mut10.htm

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  • 1

    Of course not! My bad, haha. Go to section 5.0: Observed Instances of Speciaton. That's the one, sorry about that.

    And the fruit fly is one of the most commonly-employed tools to support evolution... that website is horrifically flawed and under-sourced.

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  • 1

    i beleive that the world was made by a flying spaghetti monster...

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  • 1

    O.K., so let's get started with this: I'm going to ask questions and you answer me logically (and seriously please).

    If I told you that your house built itself by itself, would you believe me, or would you call me an idiot?

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  • 1

    @daminals,
    God does exist. i understand that you don't understand that,and because of this i feel sorry for you. the blood of Christ does cover your sins once(if ever) you decide to accept it. God does love you and i hope one day that you find this. God bless you

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  • 1

    I'm no an atheist and saying god bless you to me isn't going to hurt me or anything. I'm more of an agnostic. Don't feel sorry for me because you can't back up proof of your god or christ. Anybody can make up a story. Anybody can draw a person. And why are you bothering me about this 26 days later?

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  • 1

    Could you elaborate on why the fruit fly expierement was insufficient?

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  • 1

    Pastafarian!! Woo

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  • 1

    I will go through this process if you wish, but...

    1.) If you are using this as an analogy to employ a teleological argument, it fails due to the fact that houses/any inanimate object is unable to reproduce, a key factor in universally accepted Darwinian evolution/natural selection.

    2.) If you are using this as an analogy to employ a cosmological argument, it fails due to the fact that while there is no known process a house can be created without a designer, there are multiple known/theorized processes that adequately explain the birth of our universe.

    If these are both off, or you still wish to question me, feel free to lead me along any track you wish.

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  • 1

    Because fruit flies are one of the most studied and documented cases of evolution, and are used in-lab all of the time to demonstrate evolutionary theory and natural selection. That website ignores countless peer reviewed publications and goes off on a tangential episode of randomness.

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  • 1

    Why does that make this expierement bad then? They couldn't get a new species to develop.

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  • 1

    *cyberspace high five*

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  • 1

    Because their timescale was too small. Because a few people couldn't develop a new species in a single experiment over a few years says nothing about speciation on the whole. Maybe if no observed speciation had ever occurred, they would have a point... ifff they had spent thousands of years doing this experiment.

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  • 1

    *cyberspace victory dance*

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  • 1

    But the lifespan of the fly is significantly shorter than humans so of course this wouldn't be valide for something like humans.

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  • 1

    Darwinian evolution/natural selection is a theory, so it's debatable. I personally disagree with it. As for inanimate objects being unable to reproduce, that would mean that these objects didn't come to existence without someone making them, even if we don't know who he is, right?

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  • 1

    *cyberspace hug* XD

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  • 1

    1.) Darwinian evolution is a fact. Darwinian natural selection is the theory behind the proven observation of evolution.

    Evolution as fact: "Allelic frequencies in a population change overtime"
    Evolution as theory: "The above is caused by competition, mutation, and reproduction"

    However, you must realize that it is a "theory" in the scientific sense, not in the common sense of the word. While a common theory is a guess, a scientific theory is a well-substantiated, proven-as-much-as-it-can-be explanatory devised built around muntains of evidence. For example: Germ Theory, Gravitational Theory, Cell Theory, etc.

    Yes. Some objects are made by "someone."

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  • 1

    I understand your point about Darwinian evolution and natural selection, and I get the distinction between the two. I also know the difference between a theory and a scientific fact. It's just that I don't believe us humans evolved from monkeys, that's all.

    Going back to this "someone": he must exist, even if we don't know who or what it is. Some people prefer to say that the universe was created by itself (or nature, in other words), and it is fine. This means that the "someone" who created this universe is part of it (or not). In order for this someone to have the energy to create this universe and control it, he must be a god or a superpower (or anything superficial actually; you may even call it nature). So establishing the point that there is "someone", we need to define what he is: almighty, strong and powerful, has total control, is the center of energy in this universe (probably), can be one or many people (still a possibility at this stage), no?

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  • 1

    I don't believe us humans evolved from monkeys. I know, according to scientific fact, that we share a common ancestor with other primates, and evolved from such forms as Austraulopithecus Aforensis, Homo Habilis, Homo Erectus, etc. It's not something simple to say, "that's all," you are challenging scientific consensus and known observation- a bold move considering I doubt you've done any experimental research or published to support your position?

    Why do you say that the universe was created? Although our specific space-time manifested at what is commonly referred to as the Big Bang, it is an intolerable presumption to assume that no other space-times existed before. Also, the use of "someone" is begging the question- a logical fallacy.

    Your argument is essentially the cosmological argument, which I addressed above. You assert, "He must exist," with absolutely no scientific or logical backing. What are your premises? Formulate an argument so I may address it.

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  • 1

    Videos 1 and 2: I hope you realize the creator of those videos, Edward Current, is a satirist that is wildly atheistic....

    Video 3: Watches cannot reproduce, thus fail as an analogy for evolution/organisms.

    Video 4: The Fibonacci sequence is cool. I agree. What does this have anything to do with God??

    Also, it's funny how you gave up on our former conversation, and attempted to overwhelm me with media to circumvent responding to my queries.

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  • 1

    Why do you find it funny? And who says I've given up on our former conversation? And who said I'm trying to 'overwhelm' you?

    Videos 1 and 2: Yes, I do realize the satire, but the points he makes contradict with his views. What I mean is, (as he mentioned), can you prove to me that God does not exist?

    Video 3: What does evolution have to do with God? Notice that whatever we evolved from was created. It didn't just exist.

    Video 4: I agree, the person who made this video didn't clarify what the relationship between the Fibonacci sequence and God is. Basically, it's just that the implementation of the sequence in all of these different places in our universe on all levels can't be just a coincidence, no? It must be the work of that "someone" who created and designed our universe...

    The problem that I'm facing here is that you're limiting the idea of God to this universe of ours. God didn't come to existence; he just exists. Always. You can't say anything about him not existing before or after a certain time, because he created time. Think about that...

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  • 1

    1 and 2: Your view is the "positive" view, which means it is not my job to disprove a God, it is yours to prove one. The default position is God's nonexistence.

    3: You must first prove your premise. Why do you insist on saying the world/original organisms were created?

    4: It may not be "someone," or a "design," but instead a law of nature. Much like how all electrons are the same, and how they bind with protons in a repeatable/predictable manner. This is a relationship in the same way the Fibonacci sequence is, yet there is no reason to posit that this proves design. Eh?

    Let me edit your paragraph... "The problem that I'm facing here is that you're limiting the idea of the Universe to our experience. The universe didn't come into existence; it just exists. Always. You can't say anything about it not existing before or after a certain time, because it wasn't created. Think about that..."

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  • 1

    I'd rather burn in hell than dwell in heaven, knowing that so many of my loved ones are being tortured down below anyway.

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  • 1

    Obviously God exsists because the Devil exsists, just look at what passes for TV today? Luckly our most giving lord has given Hulu and Youtube. Thank you lord for giving me the option of not growing retarded with the rest of the country.

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  • -3

    @Logos
    My religious view is just that- there is none.
    what are your stances on religion (or lack thereof)
    ONLY ONE RULE: you must replace the major words in your response with taco
    it makes for one funny comment
    il start: i taco an tacoist

    Reply
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