CNN Steubenville FAIL + Lose faith in humanity pics

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/18/cnn-feels-sorry-for-steubenville-rapists-world-can-t-believe-its-ears.html

Video that went viral:


Also, here's some pics to make you lose even MOAR faith in humanity >=D


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Comments

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  • 6

    Ok so let me pose this scenario instead. I'm the 1st place regional female high jumper. I'm at a spring break party at some kids house with my fellow high school students. I find the male quarterback completely wasted and passed out cold in a bedroom. I figure it might be fun to fuck him in the ass with a the limp zucchini I found in the fridge. You know, just for shits and giggles. Then I have this hilarious thought. What if I filmed me fucking this jock in the ass? Wouldn't that be epic and hilarious and everyone could bust his balls for it. So I share this plan with my friend and I ask her to film it and take pictures. How cool am I fucking this quarterback in the ass with this limp zucchini? Then I think, lets go ass to mouth! Then I upload all the pics and video. Did the star quarterback ask for it? Did he get what he deserved?

    Bullshit rape culture SkinnyBill. Until you've been raped you don't get a say!

    She didn't deserve it. However, It would've been much wiser on her part to remember that this is not an ideal world, there is a 100% chance that there will be stupid guys at a high school party when they are drinking. It even says it on the bottle "Will impair judgment and motor skills". No one (Atleast I hope no one) thinks this is what she deserved or that if a woman is raped, she deserved it.
    But when you get stories like this of girls who get smashed out of their minds and get taken advantage of, it's not hard to understand that doing things like that has risks.
    It's just like walking into a part of a city that has a high crime percentage. We teach not to kill, or use violence, etc: But when you put yourself into a situation where the risk is higher, and even then add to it by impairing yourself, it's not surprising that these things happen. It's unfortunate, but we do not live in an ideal society where we all know and abide by what crosses the line.

    In an ideal society, she should have no problem get black out drunk and taking off all her clothes. But that's not the world we live in.
    - xRAYZ0Rx March 20, 2013, 1:45 pm
    I don't accept the answer of "that's not the world we live in". If that's not the world we live in then we need to change it. Education is where it starts.

    I was raped. In my own home. After a party I had. By an acquaintance. There was drinking involved but I was not drunk. I said no repeatedly. Didn't matter. I was forcefully shoved back down on the bed and told "it's ok" every time I said no and tried to push him off of me.

    I did not deserve it nor was it my fault. This was someone I had hung out with among friends all the time and never expected him to violate me the way he did. It took me a long time to realize that he did rape me and I still have a hard time calling it rape. You want to know why? Because I did blame myself. I should have never let this guy back in my house after everyone left but I thought he might have forgotten something and it never crossed my mind what he had in mind. I couldn't call it rape because after the fourth time of being shoved back down on the bed, more forcefully each time, I just decided to let it happen. Better to just let it happen than be beaten and then raped anyway. If this guy was ok continuing to stick his goddamn cock in me what's to stop him from beating or even killing me if I continued to fight?

    So how can anyone say that this girl shouldn't have gotten so drunk in the first place when she was with she classmates, people she had a reasonable expectation not to rape her? Possibly, in her mind, people that would have watched out for her.

    Bringing it back around to education. Parents need to teach their children that this isn't ok. My boyfriend's mother told him at the age of 8 that you never try to have sex with a girl if she isn't ready or says no. When he asked her why she responded with what I feel is a perfect response to put it in perspective for boys. She said, "you probably won't understand this but...imagine having something shoved up your ass". It made quite an impression on him.

    Until you have experienced a situation you will never understand it, or what goes through a person's mind. This poor girl will blame herself enough so that everyone else doesn't have to.
    - Sweetness March 21, 2013, 10:00 pm
    Before this debate goes any further, I'd just like to say that I am very sorry about your incident. No it wasn't your fault and I do hope you turned the guy who did it in to law enforcement.

    In any case, it is taught that we shouldn't murder. It is taught we shouldn't steal. We are taught many things in life. But people have always done what they want to do.

    This is the point I'm trying to make, so let me make myself clear. Rapists are criminals. They're are unlawful. They should be dealt with accordingly. However, just as we know muggers and robbers exist, there are common sense steps that we have been taught to take to avoid them. But as soon as it comes to rape, its taboo? "You don't understand, you're a guy" If it happens, then yes, then we punish the criminal. But you can avoid it before the traumatizing experience even happens. I don't understand why that's so hard to comprehend. No one here thinks raping someone is OK.

    We will never live in a perfect world.
    - xRAYZ0Rx March 22, 2013, 12:08 pm
    This comment is the sobering reality check everyone who commented here needs to read. It's is precisely why we need to talk about this issue. I've heard similar stories to this before, one from someone I knew personally. Which is why I've argued as much as I have here. It's a humiliating, terrifying and in some cases, confusing issue as is. The last thing the victim needs is to be drunk/slut shamed by the public. Since she usually puts herself through more than enough.
    - CrazyJay March 23, 2013, 3:04 pm
    Reply
  • 6

    Moral: assume makes an ass out of u and me. Admitting this took balls. Thank you.
    - CrazyJay March 23, 2013, 3:09 pm
    No probs. If the scenario didn't involve her being slipped a drug though, would you (kinda) accept my argument? :L
    - SkinnyBill March 23, 2013, 5:18 pm
    No. I would argue that since it takes a rapist for a rape to happen in the first place, the amount of alcohol consumed is irrelevant. (Drunk =/= yes) Otherwise, she'd just be doing typical stupid drunken stuff or being passed out (lying immobile doesn't hurt anyone, unless they trip over you.) Which is quite a bit more forgivable than rape. But I think enough has been said on this.
    - CrazyJay March 23, 2013, 6:13 pm
    Reply
  • 3

    The world would be a better place if these people suddenly just disappeared.

    • Disco
    • March 19, 2013, 10:14 am
    Reply
  • 2

    Well let's look at it this way. She testified she was "too drunk to remember much that night" If that's the case, how the fuck does she know she was raped? How does she know her drunk self was saying "yes yes yes more more more" I've said this alot. If a girl is going to drink herself into a "black out drunk" state of being, then have a friend watch over you.

    In this particular case, she appears to have been literally blacked out, at which point, I don't understand having sex with her (yeah, let's fuck a tranquilized mattress)... but that is indeed rape. In which case, yeah I kinda feel sorry for her, I don't feel sorry for the two guys, but come on. All three of them didn't use any sort of common sense. All three of them are at fault. The boys more so than the girl thoguh.

    She knows she was raped because they took video saying they raped her and peed on her, as well as naked pictures and posted them online. Not to mention the boys' friends testified that she was raped. Also Anonymous (the people who brought this to the attention of the public with the video) allege that they used a date rape drug slipped into her drink instead of her drinking until she passed out. Anyways, even if someone does drink until they pass out I don't think that makes it their fault in any way if they get raped and peed on and underage naked pictures of them taken.

    I must say, that's a pretty negative outlook you have on men if you think it is so normal for men to rape a passed out girl at a highschool party that she needs to have a friend watch over her.
    - casper667 March 19, 2013, 2:46 pm
    As someone who's been to plenty of parties and kept his hands off the ridiculously drunken girls: Yes, that's an incredibly negative outlook.

    I don't know why it's so hard to just say "Rape is wrong regardless of how drunk the victim is and if you do it, you have to face the consequences."
    - CrazyJay March 19, 2013, 5:10 pm
    How's the old saying go.... "The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

    Stories upon stories upon stories of this happening are far too abundant to say "Well it shouldn't happen, I don't know why people do it, so it shouldn't be my problem to have to be aware of it"

    Real world wake up call. It does happen. A lot. Maybe not in your town. Maybe not with your group of friends. But it happens. A lot.

    I hate people's attitudes when they think just because bad people do it and they think its wrong of them to do it, suddenly they're free of responsibility to try and prevent it because they know they don't do it themselves.

    All of us live in a crime ridden world. Filled with bad decisions and evil people who do fucked up things. Sure, most of us are not said people, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

    Do I rape girls? No. Do I think it's the girls fault if she is raped? Depends. Did she deserve it? Hell no. No one does. But look at it this way.

    Guy gets blackout drunk. Passes out on his floor. Leaves his front door open. Some guys walk by, see this, and raid his place. Steal his tv, wallet, phone, everything.

    Is it his fault? Depends on how you look at it. Does he deserve it? No. But guess what, that's the society we live in. We don't have locks to keep honest people out. But when opportunity is staring some fucked up individual in the face (mixing with alcohol) they're not going to step back and ask "Is this wrong?". They know it is. They don't care. And lying to yourself and saying that "This shouldn't happen so I don't need to be aware of it" is ignorant.
    - xRAYZ0Rx March 20, 2013, 2:01 pm
    Don't get me wrong, I have no illusions about what some people are sick enough to do to each other. My problem was with your assertion that the victim needs to take responsibility when she was the one who was drugged and raped and when you failed to acknowledge that there was video evidence of the crime. You drunk-shamed her before you even knew what you were talking about. "That's the society we live in." but that said, if we live in a society where people will rape each other, we can't immediately blame the victim when the problem is, well, the rapists. You punish criminals, not victims, right? Fault isn't the point.
    - CrazyJay March 21, 2013, 2:45 pm
    No one is saying we don't need to be aware of it, we're saying it's wrong to blame the victim. Otherwise, you could literally argue almost every victim of a crime is to blame at least a little bit. Did the company's copyrighted material get pirated? It's their fault for putting it online, after all if they wouldn't have done that this crime would have been much harder / impossible to commit. Did the man get killed in an accident with a drunk driver? It's his fault for being on the road when bars close, after all if he wouldn't have been out there at 2am he would probably not have been in that accident. Did the robbers break into your car while you and a friend were in the store? It's your fault for not making your friend watch the car while you were inside, after all if you would have done that this crime would have been much harder / impossible to commit. Oh, JFK got assassinated? Well it's his fault since he was in a car with the top off, if he wouldn't have been so vulnerable like that this crime would have been much harder / impossible to commit.

    You would sound just as stupid saying these things as you do saying a rape victim needs to take responsibility. There's no reason to even say it unless you are specifically trying to make the victim look like they somehow caused it. Yes, there are precautions she could have taken that would have decreased the chances of this crime happening, but so could almost anyone who has ever been a victim of any crime.
    - casper667 March 21, 2013, 3:43 pm
    Reply
  • 2

    The fact that people are defending those pieces of shit is one of the most depressing examples of rape culture I've ever seen.

    • Ertrov
    • March 19, 2013, 5:41 pm
    It's even worse that I'm seeing it on this site.

    I've seen some of the people on this site type stupid shit (I've argued with johnecash after all) But I think having to argue about whether or not rape victims deserve pity/sympathy/blame is the most disturbing thing I've seen here so far. If we can't simply look at this say "Rape is bad" without trying to shed blame onto the victim, what does that say about us?
    - CrazyJay March 20, 2013, 6:21 am
    Reply
  • 2

    Wow. I really expected better from the members of the Sharenator community, but just from reading these comments... some of you should be ashamed of yourselves. You fucking know which ones.

    • Ertrov
    • March 20, 2013, 11:05 am
    Reply
  • 1

    This whole story is just one big circle of stupid decisions

    Reply
  • 1

    Couldn't even get through them all. Too disgusted. Some of the comments here are just as bad.

    Reply
  • 1

    Every one but #5 is terrible

    How is #5 not terrible?
    - Ertrov March 19, 2013, 5:47 pm
    Because their lives are ruined too, and at least one of them feels extremely guilty about it. Remorse.
    - tbart2010 March 19, 2013, 5:59 pm
    Their lives should be ruined. They deserve exactly that. And all he specifically apologized for was sending the nude pictures. He isn't sorry for what he did, he's sorry he got caught.
    - Ertrov March 19, 2013, 6:19 pm
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  • 0

    Personally, the way I see it, all 3 are at fault as none of them should be drinking in the first place. If anything, the girl should be charged with underage drinking, but I have to agree that in this case the guys should be charged with rape, and probably distribution of pornography and whatnot as she was supposedly unconscious and she's underage.

    I think it's fair that none of them were charged for it. I think it's important to waive the less serious crimes in favor of the more serious ones, otherwise rape victims (or victims of any crime in general) might not come forward if they also face charges for drinking/other minor crimes.
    - casper667 March 21, 2013, 7:29 am
    i guess that's true, but they still need to be charged for drinking at the very least, so as to discourage such a thing from happening again
    - shadewraith March 21, 2013, 5:30 pm
    She was raped. Do you seriously think there's even a remote chance of her getting drunk again after that?
    - Ertrov March 21, 2013, 10:10 pm
    Ertrov, I think she'll be doing a lot of drinking after that.
    - Sweetness March 21, 2013, 10:13 pm
    I'll be more specific: do you seriously think she'd get drunk at a party again? People seem to be acting like she needs to be punished by law for drinking, when she's been punished infinitely more than enough by being raped. Anyone saying she needs to be held responsible can just go fuck themselves.
    - Ertrov March 21, 2013, 10:18 pm
    The point isn't that she hasn't been punished, but rather that there are tons of other people that is just as likely to happen to, because they won't see this and think of the consequences
    - shadewraith March 21, 2013, 10:47 pm
    Reply
  • 0

    so... why isn't she on trial herself for underage drinking? i'm just asking, personally i dont care too much, but deal with problems as they come. if she drinks, the gets raped, then why isn't she on trial first and the rape case brought afterwards? they both get done.

    Because underage drinking is a civil crime... the same as a speeding ticket. Also, usually the state does not prosecute these sort of crimes in order to have the more serious (criminal) crimes reported, since victims would often not come forward if they would also be charged with a crime.

    Now, if you wanted to discuss the parents' houses where these parties took place, I believe (not entirely sure) that would be a criminal misdemeanor if they decided to prosecute the parents. It is also a crime to not report felonies, so technically anyone at the parties should also be charged for omission but they are not prosecuting that either.
    - casper667 March 22, 2013, 7:57 am
    i hate our legal system... i'm a fan of the whole "eye for an eye" thing... the 2 guys should get put in federal prison and left with "bubba" for a few days. then released, i think that'd be a bit more... well, traumatizing.
    - MIKYTEY March 22, 2013, 12:56 pm
    Reply
  • -2

    I hate it how too many young girls/women this age can bend the rules exactly how they want. Not all of them, but some really think they can do what the fuck they like. I always see it as, if you get yourself drunk, anything that happens to you is YOUR FAULT. YOU made the decision to drink the alcohol, and get drunk, so YOU need to face the consequences. End of.

    Nobody makes the choice to get raped. If you rape a drunk girl you have no excuse and deserve to be punished. Just like if it had been at gun point. The state of the victim does not negate the crime. People make mistakes drunk and sure, they should know better but nobody deserves to get raped for it. I don't know when the last time you got hammered was, but if something bad happened to you, like if you got seriously injured or attacked, would you just say "Oh well, my fault for drinking?" Or would you want those who hurt/attacked you to answer for it?

    I'm really sick of hearing these reactions to these types of stories. There is no excuse for raping anyone. You don't get to shift the blame onto the victim regardless of circumstance. If I can keep my hands off drunk girls, so can anyone else.

    Also, she was slipped a rufie. But I'm sure that still makes it her fault (sarcasm)
    - CrazyJay March 19, 2013, 5:03 pm
    Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You are saying that it is the girl's fault she was raped because she made the decision to get drunk at a party with (I'm assuming) classmates of hers?
    - casper667 March 19, 2013, 5:15 pm
    I'll go ahead and start murdering drunk people then. After all, it's their fault, right?
    - Ertrov March 19, 2013, 5:46 pm
    I totally understand your point. But this isn't really what springs to mind when people say "rape".

    Things like murder, being held at gunpoint etc, no, of course thats not your fault. But you should KNOW that being drunk affects your judgement! And that can affect your ability to say NO.

    I see far too much of this shit in the UK. Young women going out for a "piss up" (getting drunk for no point other than to get drunk) and the night just ends in very rowdy arguments, terrible decisions, and even worse crimes. Too many of these people think it's OK to go out and get drunk every single night of the week, or every single weekend, to the point where they can't even stand up. They have no idea what the fuck they are doing and it's all their fault. That's an end of it.

    Coming back to where I started - if you are the victim of a crime, being drunk normally wouldn't have an impact. But if you get drunk to the point where you don't even know what you are consenting to or cannot think of the consequences, you deserve what you get. People might hate me for saying this, but it is her fault that she did not stop herself getting that drunk. She has got to take responsibility for her own actions.

    Just to finish up, I want to make clear that the two guys should not have taken advantage of her. They have responsibility too. But I am sick and tired of women this age trying to claim that they are not responsible for their own actions.
    - SkinnyBill March 19, 2013, 6:34 pm
    Yes. I am. As I replied to CrazyJay above, she should take responsibility for her actions. Both males and females at that age need to understand that alcohol affects judgement, and if they can't handle that amount, don't drink that amount.
    The guys should not have taken advantage, but still, she should not have got herself drunk to the point where she is too mindless to know what she is doing. That is HER fault and she should not claim full victory in this case. You will probably find that, IF she is the kind of girl that does this regularly, that she will do the same thing again, confident that political correctness will always be at her side, and she should never feel the need to be responsible for herself.

    Edit: I'd just like to add, I have been to parties where there are people my age surrounded by alcohol, but me and most of my friends are responsible enough to know when you've had too much. I just hit a point where I think "Ok, i'm starting to get a bit dizzy now" or whatever, and take it easy for a good few minutes before carrying on.
    I don't see the point in drinking to the point where you are so drunk that you don't know what you are doing, where you are, or why you've woken up in a puddle of vomit or with your head in a toilet bowl. I see drinks as something to enjoy and make the night go better. If the night ends like I've just said, then you defeat the object of having a good night.

    Too many people, especially in the UK, don't take responsibility for themselves, and it's terrible to see. And sometimes extremely annoying. If you can't moderate your drink, then you should not be drinking at all.
    - SkinnyBill March 19, 2013, 6:37 pm
    No. You miss the point. As I said to CrazyJay, being held at gunpoint or being victim of many other crimes would not be caused by being drunk. However, she put herself in the position where she could be taken advantage of by drinking too much without thinking. That is HER FAULT. She should know how much she can drink before she doesn't know what she's doing anymore.
    As I also said, the guys should not have taken advantage of her, but she is also responsible for herself. If she didn't get into that condition, that probably would not have happened.
    - SkinnyBill March 19, 2013, 6:39 pm
    Blacking out from drinking would make being murdered easier just like it made being raped easier. There's no difference, and that still doesn't make it her fault.
    - Ertrov March 19, 2013, 7:21 pm
    You obviously didn't read about what happened, or you would know she wasn't just drunk and unaware of what was going on. She blacked out from drinking. She was unconscious. There was literally no consent, drunken or otherwise.
    - Ertrov March 19, 2013, 7:27 pm
    I object to that. People have decisions to make in life... Example... Did anyone make her drink? If no is the answer then it all should fall upon her. Peer pressure does not matter in my eyes I have made decisions that went against the grain of people... In fact it pissed them off. If she does something stupid like drinking in such an excess to black out then she would have known several drinks before that or at least thought "Hmmm... i am pretty drunk right now. Maybe i should stop."
    But in reality of the matter she didn't... So i disagree wholeheartedly on the matter. And I would see the matter of complete stupidity on underage drinking. Sometimes "Y.O.L.O." Does not work. Also on a side note i have drank on my own free will... I move into a house and suggested a party because of the new house... and i drank on an full stomach and i was still under control of my actions. All I did was sit around dizzy as hell hating it (the nausea)... but... with a major but... I was still in complete control... Just very lazy. Also this happened about a year ago i am almost 24. By no means i condone what happened but everyone should be held accountable in the situation down to the person supplying the alcohol to 16 year old kids.
    - zeonfighter March 19, 2013, 8:13 pm
    Correct, I didn't fully read, but I assumed.

    To be fair though, if she blacked out from drinking, referring to what I said, that is her fault for drinking more than she can handle.
    - SkinnyBill March 19, 2013, 8:21 pm
    "I see far too much of this shit in the UK. Young women going out for a "piss up" (getting drunk for no point other than to get drunk) and the night just ends in very rowdy arguments, terrible decisions, and even worse crimes. Too many of these people think it's OK to go out and get drunk every single night of the week, or every single weekend, to the point where they can't even stand up." This is an assumption. What makes you think this girl was getting drunk every night? She was 16, teens have a few too many some times, especially when they don't know how to pace themselves. As far as taking responsibility goes...they took a video of her getting gang raped and peed on. She's suffered enough. You don't need to further shame a victim like this.

    "But if you get drunk to the point where you don't even know what you are consenting to or cannot think of the consequences,"

    Please for the love of god, read the article. She was slipped a date rape drug and even if she hadn't been, she could have still been over powered by these guys. There were several witnesses that confirmed this. They preyed on her, created a scenario where she would get raped. The fact that she couldn't consent makes the crime even worse. These boys took advantage of a girl who couldn't say no. They are the ones at fault. Simple. The amount of alcohol involved is irrelevant.
    - CrazyJay March 20, 2013, 6:05 am
    "People have decisions to make in life... Example... Did anyone make her drink? If no is the answer then it all should fall upon her."

    Just like those boys made the choice to slip her a date rape drug, gang rape her, pee on her and film the whole fucking thing. So they have to live with the consequences of that. You're bringing a straw-man into this with the underage drinking. It doesn't excuse rape any more than it excuses murder or theft. Had the rape been at gunpoint and the victim sober, would it have been any more of a crime?

    I've been at parties with underage drunk girls before and I've kept my dick to myself. I didn't assume "Well, she is drunk so maybe she deserves to get raped." If by some chance I did, the victim would not be at fault no matter what state she was in. I would because I took advantage of someone who was in no condition to consent.
    - CrazyJay March 20, 2013, 6:15 am
    You are fucking unbelievable.
    - Ertrov March 20, 2013, 11:03 am
    She never deserved to get raped, but she needs to take responsibility. Although people generally don't follow these laws, she *technically* should not have been drinking at all. Fair point with the drug though, I missed that. That's not her fault though, despite the whole "don't leave drinks unattended" thing. I totally see your point, but she shouldn't have really been in that position in the first place.
    - SkinnyBill March 20, 2013, 11:47 am
    If people can't handle their drink who the hell is anyone to take advantage of them, what gives that person the right to take advantage, all this boils down to assholes being assholes, yes she may have been wasted yes she may have a made a bad decision but she is young she has time to learn if they'd shaved her head fair play harsh but funny and fair, you wipe out expect consequences but i for one having blacked out many many times from alcohol abuse and other things would not go ooh aha if i was sexualy interfered with there would be consequences especialy if the person was stupid enough to document it, this girl couldn't go and smash their spawny hot headed rapist teeth in so she went to the law as any vunerable person should.

    You don't see the point in drinking or consuming whatever in excess? good for you that's your choice, its her choice too as it was their choice to do what they did, i'm not saying she shouldn't think about what she's doing and take care as she is vunerable but if there weren't assholes who take advantage of people then people wouldn't have to worry about shit like this they could learn through advice from their peers rather than rape.

    People have free will, end of but that free will should only be used to harm yourself rather than others.
    - HippyBoy March 20, 2013, 1:49 pm
    Here's the thing about taking responsibility: You can't take responsibility when you've been drugged or overpowered. I'd be a bit of a hypocrite if I agreed about the underage drinking, (did more than my share before I became legal.) but I'd say if you're going to do that type of thing, you be careful about it and take responsibility...for the hangover, or for cleaning the puke off of your friends TV once you've sobered up. But the only person who needs to take responsibility for a rape is the rapist. I think we can at least agree on that.
    - CrazyJay March 21, 2013, 2:52 pm
    You might as well be saying, "Sure it was bad somebody got murdered, but he pirated some movies on the internet, so he's guilty too." You can't possibly compare underage drinking to rape, any more than you can compare murder to piracy.
    - Ertrov March 21, 2013, 10:13 pm
    hey skinny, in the US it's illegal to drink under 21, she was 16... personally, i think it is partially her fault. but hey, this is the internet, not everybody shares our opinions and "young women" are always given the benefit of the doubt... at least thats how most people see it. if we solved everything with the death sentence, we'd have a LOT less crime on both sides(drinking AND rape)
    - MIKYTEY March 21, 2013, 11:26 pm
    Could say the same over here in old England. People get away with some unbelievable shit here. Our drinking age is 18, but too many people drink underage. I will admit, I have done a few times, but even without the watchful eye of any guardians, literally just in a group with my friends, I still moderate myself (as said above somewhere). It doesn't take a lot to realise you are starting to feel a little ill, and maybe need to stop for a while.

    Seriously though, we need to sort out some legal shit. How does the police expect to stop people speeding? If you drive over the speed limit (within a certain amount), you are subject to a £60 fine.

    If you let your dog shit in a public place and don't clean it up, you are subject to a £1,000 fine. And people wonder why so many people don't listen to traffic laws.
    - SkinnyBill March 23, 2013, 11:11 am
    pretty much, side note, i'm not surprised we got downvoted to legitimate questions but i am dissapointed...
    - MIKYTEY March 24, 2013, 1:55 pm
    Yeah, I didn't notice that :O

    Those were legit concerns people. Who are you? Did the government pay you?!
    - SkinnyBill March 24, 2013, 6:22 pm
    i work hard for my points... and by work i mean sit here and by hard i mean push buttons...
    - MIKYTEY March 24, 2013, 7:45 pm
    Reply
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